Amelia [00:00:04] [Twinkling, airy music begins to play, overlapping with the introduction] Welcome to The Softer Cast, a podcast for small business owners and creatives who want tender podcast advice without any tech bro bullshit.

Amelia [00:00:12] I'm Amelia Hruby and I'm the founder of Softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio for women and non-binary entrepreneurs. On this show, I answer your questions about podcasting.

Amelia [00:00:23] Things like:

Amelia [00:00:23] Should I put my show on YouTube?

Amelia [00:00:25] Can I just record it on Zoom?

Amelia [00:00:26] How much do editors really cost?

Amelia [00:00:29] And how many downloads should my podcast be getting?

Amelia [00:00:32] Yeah, I'll even answer that question. Every episode of The Softer Cast is really practical, a little magical, and less than 10 minutes long. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to the show and share it with your podcast bestie. Then, head to the show notes to check out our free resources.

Amelia [00:00:51] [Intro music quiets but continues to play] No matter where you're at in your podcasting journey, we're here to support you. Join us on the softer side of podcasting.

Amelia [00:01:04] Hello and welcome to The Softer Cast [music fades out], a podcast for small business owners and creatives who want tender podcast advice without any tech bro bullshit.

Amelia [00:01:14] I'm Amelia Hruby and I'm the founder of Softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio for women and non-binary entrepreneurs and creatives.

Amelia [00:01:21] On this show, I answer your questions about podcasting and I share my tried-and-true advice from years of working on dozens and dozens and dozens of shows and helping so many small business owners grow their companies with podcasts.

Amelia [00:01:37] So, today's question comes from one of my favorite business owners who just launched a new company called slow & steady studio. Her name is Amanda, and she wrote in to ask:

Amelia [00:01:48] What are the most effective ways to grow and share podcasts these days? These days being, you know, early 2023, if you're listening live [laughs].

Amelia [00:01:58] So, I had a lot of thoughts on this question, having worked on so many shows, having watched show— some of the shows I work on grow huge audiences over the past few years, having watched some of them be really successful with tiny audiences. Oh [laughs heartily]. Welcome to Wilco, the cat, if you're watching on YouTube, she has joined us. If you're listening, you can imagine her chiming in now [laughs].

Amelia [00:02:23] But I wanted to share, kind of, four points about my advice on effective growth for— effective strategies for podcast gross— podcast growth [laughs heartily]. Geez, ah, struggling with my words this afternoon.

Amelia [00:02:39] Effective strategies for podcast growth in 2023.

Amelia [00:02:43] So, let's dive into these four strategies.

Amelia [00:02:46] So, the first growth strategy that I recommend is to ask people to send your podcast to a friend.

Amelia [00:02:53] It sounds really simple, but [laughs] I really cannot overstate how important it is to ask people to share your show. And honestly, if you can ask them even really directly, be like, "Text this to a friend, please [laughs]."

Amelia [00:03:10] "Text and ask them to listen to this episode."

Amelia [00:03:12] "Text and ask them to subscribe."

Amelia [00:03:13] Like, a really direct way that you're asking them to share.

Amelia [00:03:16] Here's why this is so important. Word of mouth is still the most popular way that people find new shows. When you look at the Edison reports or other places where people are polling podcast listeners, they're still most likely to listen to a new show because someone they know recommended it. So, you really want people recommending your show to their friends and colleagues and communities.

Amelia [00:03:38] And the way you're going to get them to do that is by asking them. Now, the reason I emphasize this is because I think share with a friend or send to a friend is a more important CTA or call to action than subscribe, rate, and review.

Amelia [00:03:52] Now, subscribe, rate, and review has been, I think, the standard podcast CTA for a really long time. Subscribing is still really important. So, I would say maybe the ask is, like, ask people to subscribe and send to a friend. But the rate and review piece, I think at this stage can drop off.

Amelia [00:04:10] Once you have a few good ratings on your Apple profile or Spotify page, that's going to provide all the social proof you need for people to be like— if they find your show and they want to go see you, people think like, "Okay, cool, it's got five stars. Okay, cool. It's got 4.9 stars. Okay, cool. These three people said they loved it [chuckles]."

Amelia [00:04:28] That's plenty of social proof. So, once you've got that, that's really all you need. You don't need to keep asking for more ratings and reviews. One of the reasons people ask for them is it's this widely spread myth that ratings and reviews will help people find your show because it will boost you on podcast charts, specifically Apple Podcast charts. That is not true.

Amelia [00:04:55] Let me say that again [laughs lightly]. Your ratings and reviews do not help you rise the ranks of Apple Podcasts charts. Apple has said this. There is documentation [laughs lightly] on their website at this point that says that ratings and reviews are not used for charts.

Amelia [00:05:11] So, again, what's the purpose of rating and reviews? It's social proof. Getting a few of them, important.

Amelia [00:05:17] But once you've gotten that, I think you should move that out of your standard CTA language and it should be, “Subscribe and send to a friend.”

Amelia [00:05:24] And really push that, “Send to a friend,” because at the end of the day, ratings and reviews are not getting you new listeners, they're not increasing your downloads, but people sending it to other people and saying, "Listen, I loved this." That's always going to get you new downloads. That's always going to grow your audience.

Amelia [00:05:38] So, first growth strategy:

Amelia [00:05:39] Ask people to subscribe and send your show to a friend.

Amelia [00:05:45] Second growth strategy:

Amelia [00:05:47] Have strategic, aligned guests on your podcast and get them to share their episode with their audience. Ideally, in more than just an Instagram story [chuckles]. Like, sharing in a real way.

Amelia [00:05:59] So, let me unpack this one. We are in the era of podcasts guesting as PR strategy. Like, there are whole companies at this point who what they do is set up podcast tours for people and get them on shows to promote often their book or a program or whatever else.

Amelia [00:06:18] Now, on the one hand, love it, happy to see more podcast— podcasts getting more popularity, happy to see them working for people as an audience growth strategy.

Amelia [00:06:27] On the other hand [laughs], I think that a lot of this cold pitching is leading to people having guests on that they don't really connect with, that don't make sense for their audience, and it's really diluting the conversations that are happening on so many shows. Not to mention that all of my clients, all the podcasters I work with, like, once your show is up there and you've put up a handful of episodes, you just start getting, like, barraged with guest pitches— most of the time for stuff that's totally irrelevant, frankly.

Amelia [00:06:57] Like, it's turned into kind of scammy space and I really hate to see that because what I love about podcasting is the genuine nature of the voice and the way that it really builds trust through that embodied genuine connection you can create with your voice through your podcast. So, it's really, honestly, a bummer.

Amelia [00:07:15] And so, I don't want to say that, like, guesting is my best growth strategy. It's really a very specific type of guesting [laughs lightly] that I laid out here— strategic, aligned guests and getting them to share with their audience.

Amelia [00:07:29] So, I believe that when you invite guests on your show that are really aligned with your mission and your listeners and then they record a great episode with you and share it with their fans, that I think is, like, [smooch sound] chef's kiss the best way to cross-pollinate your audiences.

Amelia [00:07:49] So, I think that another growth strategy is having those really aligned guests on your show and really asking them to share that episode with their audience in, like, almost like an authentic and thorough way?

Amelia [00:08:04] So, that could— depending on their audience, that could be an Instagram post, it could be a TikTok video, it could be an email. But I think that really finding ways to ask people to share the episodes and creating— making it really easy for them to do that is a super important part of a guesting strategy— like having guests on your show.

Amelia [00:08:26] I also want to say that I don't think having like— I don't think it's really important to have a guest with a huge audience on your show, right? Sometimes it's really exciting, like, to talk to somebody who's got, you know, 100,000 Instagram followers. Like, "You're going to be on my podcast. That's amazing."

Amelia [00:08:42] However, often those people with those giant followings, they do a lot of podcasts and they don't actually share what you created with them with their audience. So, you may be serving some really great content with that person to your existing audience, but it may not actually be growing your show because their— even though that person has a huge audience, they're not putting your podcast episode in front of that audience, right?

Amelia [00:09:03] So, I think there are different strategies associated with having guests on your show. And as a growth strategy, I think, again, what's most important is inviting on aligned guests who are going to share the episode with their audience.

Amelia [00:09:20] Okay. Moving on to growth strategy number three. So, my third growth strategy that I think is super effective for podcasts right now in 2023 is to create a really juicy, awesome, generous, aligned lead magnet to go with your show.

Amelia [00:09:41] So, I find that most business owners, they don't want to grow their podcast just to increase their download numbers, right? Like, download numbers is not the end-all goal. Business owners want to grow their podcast to convert people and make sales. Like [chuckles], we want to grow our— we, myself included, want to grow our podcasts so we can make more money, right?

Amelia [00:10:00] So, that we can get new clients, so that we can grow our business. Like, the goal is to grow the business. The podcast is just a tool for that.

Amelia [00:10:07] So, if that's the case, then I think having that really aligned, really generous lead magnet is super important because you want your podcast listeners to give you their email address and you want them to give you their email address so you can sell them things [laughs lightly].

Amelia [00:10:21] So, I'm a big fan of selling on your show. I think it's important. I think it's good practice. I think it's a great place to pitch yourself.

Amelia [00:10:29] However, in my experience— in my clients’ experience, I've found that most listeners don't buy directly from a podcast.

Amelia [00:10:37] Like, they don't go to the show notes and click purchase. Partially because it can be challenging, right? Like to, like, go to the show notes, click the link, read the sales page, find the buy link, put in your credit card info, like doing all of that on a phone, especially if you're a podcast listener, like, while you're driving or washing dishes. Like, it's not the moment you're actually going to make the purchase.

Amelia [00:10:55] But I think that what happens is on the episode they're like, "Oh, I want that. Oh, that sounds cool. Oh, yes, please. Like, that's something that I want." And then, when it lands in their inbox, they're already ready to buy. Like, they're like, "Yes, on it. Done. I heard about this. I knew I wanted it. So glad it showed up here where it's convenient for me to purchase it."

Amelia [00:11:13] And that's why I think lead magnets are so important. So, I think that when you think about your show, like, what's your show about and what's something that your listeners are definitely going to want. Like what's going to be something they're like, "Yes, take my email address [chuckles lightly], like, have it, I want you to have it," and then serve them that thing and then they'll be on your list and you can sell to them either in a nurture sequence right after they get that or over time, you know, depending on your strategy and how your list works and how your business works.

Amelia [00:11:41] Now, something I'm hearing more and more folks do is just pitch their newsletters on their podcast, like subscribe to my newsletter so that you can hear from me more.

Amelia [00:11:50] I think that's a good intermediary strategy. Like, I think that newsletter— like it's a good way to get listeners to give you their email. But I will say that I don't think it's quite as effective as, like, giving them that thing that, like, is really going to get them to do that work I just talked about of like putting down the dishes, drying off their hands [laughs], picking up their phone, and putting their email address in, right?

Amelia [00:12:11] Like, I'm probably not going to do that just to get a newsletter, but I might do that to get a, you know, free Podcast Launch Kit or you get a free profit calculator or to get a free whatever.

Amelia [00:12:26] My recommendation would be to, like, only do this— only create one lead magnet [laughs lightly].

Amelia [00:12:34] Like, I see a lot of people make a ton of lead magnets and put all this time into all of this, you know, lead magnet creation and marketing and that's beautiful and I support you if that feels good to you. But in my experience, it gets really exhausting [laughs softly] really fast.

Amelia [00:12:47] So, I think if you can come up with, like, one really good lead magnet that's just going to be evergreen for you that you can just keep promoting and promoting and promoting, it's super effective and you limit how much time you've had to spend on this strategy.

Amelia [00:13:02] This— for, like, full transparency [laughs], this is a strategy I've used from one of our other Softer Sounds original podcasts— Off the Grid and it's definitely been effective there.

Amelia [00:13:12] And to be fully transparent about what do I mean by effective? Well, I believe we've gotten over 500 people to download the Leaving Social Media Toolkit, which is our free lead magnet. And over the course of— since launching less than a year ago, I've made— or Softer Sounds has made over $5,000 selling workshops, courses, and coaching through that podcast, exclusively, is how we sell those things. So, it works [laughs].

Amelia [00:13:40] What I've learned is, it works. And that's honestly to a pretty small audience. I think we've got, like, 200 some subscribers by most estimates. It's not like a, you know, hoppin' super popular show. I haven't done enough PR work [laughs] for the show to be that big, but it has made me good money for the effort that I have put into it and the amount of time I've had to put it into it. And I would say that has only happened because of the lead magnet.

Amelia [00:14:03] If we didn't have such a, like, motivating magnetic lead magnet that people really wanted and always signed up for, I would not have been able to convert so many of those people into clients.

Amelia [00:14:13] So, strategy three— growth strategy three is create a really aligned lead magnet to go with your show.

Amelia [00:14:21] And strategy four— rounding the corner [laughs], try to wrap this up in my 15 minutes as I promised these would be short episodes, but effective growth strategy four is have realistic expectations.

Amelia [00:14:34] Now, this is maybe not a growth strategy. This is a, like, [chuckles] personal management strategy for while you are trying to grow. But I really like for people— when I'm working with my podcasters— our clients— Softer Sounds clients on growth strategies, I try to do two things.

Amelia [00:14:53] One is get really clear on why they want to grow and how they want to grow and what metrics we should be measuring. You know, so is it just, like, "I want to get my downloads up to this number because I want to, like, get sponsors and they need this many downloads," and then we know we need to work on.

Amelia [00:15:10] Or is it, "I want to make enough money off this podcast to pay for an editor and production?" Many of my clients are like, "Help me make enough money to pay all my Softer Sounds costs [laughs]." And I'm like, "Great, let's do it."

Amelia [00:15:22] So, I think that you know, know what you want, what your end goal is because then you're going to have different strategies and measure different things, right?

Amelia [00:15:31] If your goal is to just grow download numbers, that's going to be a different set of strategies, than if your goal is to make more money.

Amelia [00:15:37] Be specific and know what your goal is and then have realistic expectations.

Amelia [00:15:44] So, I will be, again [laughs], like, very transparent, super honest.

Amelia [00:15:49] Organic growth for podcasts is much slower than it was pre-pandemic or even a few years before that.

Amelia [00:15:58] When podcasts first started gaining in popularity, like pre-Serial days and early-Serial days, I should say. Serial, the podcast, not cereal, the food [laughs].

Amelia [00:16:08] But during those days, there were fewer podcasts out there. And I think a lot of people who launched a good show, like a good, thoughtful podcast, just noticed that they would grow, like, hundreds or thousands of followers, just through consistency of making a good show.

Amelia [00:16:24] And I have a lot of clients like that and I love those shows and they are really good and they've had the longevity and they've grown those audiences really organically. But what has changed over the course of the pandemic especially, is that there are now more podcasts than ever and they are being launched all of the time.

Amelia [00:16:41] And so, the space is so much more crowded that often just having a good show isn't enough for that kind of organic growth of like, "I'm suddenly going to get hundreds and thousands of listeners without any additional marketing or promotional effort. Like, they're going to show up because there are only really like a dozen good wellness podcasts out there and you know, they're going to find mine [laughs softly]." You know, now there are hundreds of good wellness podcasts out there.

Amelia [00:17:05] So, I think that, like, carving out your space, like, attracting your listeners is more challenging than it was even just a few years ago.

Amelia [00:17:13] So, most of the time, those shows that you see landing on Apple recommendations and Spotify playlists, most of the time, those shows are paying for PR. They are paying a marketing person or a PR person to be pitching them for the lists, to be doing paid ads on different platforms, you know, banners, list promotion, all of that stuff. Now there's just a lot more money going into that space, and it's becoming more and more, in my opinion, like, necessary.

Amelia [00:17:46] Like, if you want to launch your show and have it flood the platforms and everybody who's on that week sees it, you're going to have to spend money on that.

Amelia [00:17:54] Now, if you have a sort of buzzy show topic that's really relevant to the year or the season or, like, a cultural conversation, you can and should pitch yourself to be featured on these platforms, Apple and Spotify and other platforms I'm blanking on right now, maybe Stitcher and other places. They have forms where you can submit like, "Here's my show. We're launching a new season on this day. Here's, like, what I think is really relevant about it and how you could feature it."

Amelia [00:18:22] Like, pitch yourself, please [laughs]. I'm not saying that you can't land primo space in these apps on your own, but it does require that PR work, whether you're doing it yourself or you're hiding— hiring someone else. PR being public relations. PR meaning pitching to media outlets or podcast platforms.

Amelia [00:18:43] So, [takes a deep breath] all of that is to say, from what I've seen, the days of growing thousands of listeners with no ad spend or PR push at all, are fading, unless you already have an audience of that size that you're bringing to your show. So, of course, you know, if you're listening to this and you're like, "Amelia, I've got 100,000 Instagram followers, like they're going to listen to my podcast." Cool. Love it [laughs]. Like, you've got a built-in audience. You do you. Let's grow the show in different ways. Like, your expectations are going to be very different than someone who's coming, launching a show with 100 email subscribers and, you know, the numbers are just going to look different.

Amelia [00:19:20] So, I think, again, point four is have realistic expectations. And that means being clear about your goals and then understanding what is possible for you in different amounts of time. So, if you want support figuring that out, something you can do [laughs]— highly suggest heading to our show notes for some free resources.

Amelia [00:19:45] If you have a podcast and you want to set these growth goals, we have a free Podcast Audit Workbook. It's going to walk you through reflection questions, a stats assessment, and a, kind of, magical tool to cast a spell for podcast success, which honestly is really just that piece I talked about, about getting super clear on your goals. That's what's going to happen there.

Amelia [00:20:05] And then, if you want support from me, like, if you're like, "Amelia, I am doing those things, but I'd like to know what you think since you talk to podcasters all the time [laughs] and you see what other shows do."

Amelia [00:20:15] Go ahead and head to our website and book yourself a podcast planning session. I've opened up a new service, which is one-off calls with me at a much more affordable price than our other packages. And they're an opportunity where we can really create a growth strategy specifically for you and your show. You know, you might use these strategies I've talked about in this episode. We might come up with some different ones that make the most sense for you. But those podcast planning sessions are just a really great opportunity to connect with me one-on-one and get my full focus on you and your show and your dreams and how we can bring them to life.

Amelia [00:20:49] So, 20 minutes in [laughs], I'm going to wrap up this episode on effective growth strategies for podcasts in 2023.

Amelia [00:20:59] Thank you so much for listening to The Softer Cast. Again, I'm Amelia Hruby. I host this show to answer your questions about podcasting. I'd love to take those questions at the link in the show notes. You can head to speakpipe.com/softercast, again linked in the show notes or if you're watching on YouTube linked below down there in the comments— captions, I don't even know what they call them on YouTube. [Music begins to play overlapping with the episode] But thanks for watching [laughs].

Amelia [00:21:23] Submit your questions so I can answer them in an upcoming episode and head to the show notes for all the links.

Amelia [00:21:28] Thank you again for tuning in and I will see you on the softer side of podcasting.

Amelia [00:21:38] Thanks so much for listening to The Softer Cast. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to your podcast bestie and after you do that, go ahead and drop us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify.

Amelia [00:21:50] If you'd like to submit a question, head to speakpipe.com/softercast to record a message or email us at hi@softersounds.studio.

Amelia [00:21:59] And last but not least, we made some awesome free things for you. Head to the show notes to download our free Podcast Launch Toolkit or our 3-step Podcast Audit.

Amelia [00:22:11] No matter where you're at in your podcasting journey, we're here to support you.

Amelia [00:22:15] Thanks again for tuning in and joining us on the softer side of podcasting [twinkling, airy music closes out the show].