Is my podcast audience too small for guests?
Welcome to the softer cast, a podcast for small business owners and creatives who want tender podcast advice without any tech bro bullshit. I'm Amelia Hruby, and I'm the founder of softer Sounds, a feminist podcast studio for women and non binary entrepreneurs. On this show, I answer your questions about podcasting. Things like, should I put my show on YouTube? Can I just record it on Zoom?And on this show, I love answering your questions about the art of podcasting. In this episode, we have a question about how to get guests on your podcast if you have a relatively small audience. And also, have people gotten more picky about the shows that they'll be on over the past year? Let's hear from our question asker, and then I'll provide some insight.
An:Hi, Amelia. My question is regarding niche podcasting. So I have a very niche podcast, and one of the difficulties I found is to attract the right guests for my podcast. Many, guests are very excited to get on a podcast, but they wanna be on a podcast that has, for example, a million listeners. So my podcast is very niche.
An:I do, of course, hope I have that 1,000,000, listeners one day, but I do not expect it just simply because it's a very niche podcast. But, yeah, I feel like the guests themselves have changed a lot. So just in the sense that, like, when I started out last year, and I really didn't have any difficulties getting people, like, guest on my on my show. But now, as I feel like guests are very have a very different approach. They will ask me those questions.
An:And I will tell them, yeah, that, like I said, I don't have a hyper focused niche. So I'm wondering it's also a bit maybe that the guest has changed in the sense that podcasting has become a more used media. I don't know. So any advice and, tips would be very welcome on how to start the right clients for a niche podcast. Thank you.
Amelia Hruby:So the first thing that I wanna say in response to this question is that here at softer sounds and on the softer cast, we love all podcasters with all sizes of audiences. I am here for audience size inclusivity on this show and in everything that we do. And I don't think that the goal of every podcast or perhaps any podcast needs to be a million followers. But when you do have a small audience that brings certain benefits and challenges with it. So when I work with a show with a small audience, what I am really focused on is considering what is the right size for this audience.
Amelia Hruby:And one of the main questions I ask is a question that came up in this question, which is who is your ideal listener and is this a pretty specific niche of people? I think that especially for business owners with podcasts, you don't need a million listeners. You don't honestly even need thousands of listeners. You may just need a few dozen or a few hundred people who are the right people listening to your show. So when we're thinking about rightsizing that audience, I think it really has to do with who is your ideal listener and what do you want them to do as or after they listen and how many people do you want to do that thing.
Amelia Hruby:And then from there, we can kind of reverse engineer a number. So if it's like, well, I would like 10 people to sign up for my group program, just as an example. And you learn over time that, like, okay, well, about 2% of people who listen to the podcast end up signing up for my programs, then you can say, okay, well, I probably need, like, 500 listeners per episode or 500 regularly subscribed listeners in order to fill my group program from my podcast listeners. Now how do we figure out that conversion number? Well, I would do that with the show over time by including tracked links in the podcast, maybe using a discount code so we track who exactly is coming through the podcast, etcetera.
Amelia Hruby:Like, that's its own whole process. But the purpose of sharing that here is to say that I think that it's really important to figure out what is the right size of audience for your show, what is the size of audience that you need to meet your goals. Now, that doesn't take into account that if you have guests on your show, they may also have feelings, opinions, and judgments about the size of your audience. That's mostly what I think is coming up in this question is like, why are guests asking me so much about my audience size when I approach them about being on my show? Like, is that a super important thing, especially when this is a niche audience?
Amelia Hruby:So I think my answer here is typically, like, yes and no. And there are two things I would focus on. So I think that if this comes up in an interaction with a guest or a potential guest, I wanna invite us to kind of reframe and refocus. So when I am pitching a guest, let's go back before the guest even brings anything up. Like if I know that my show has a small audience, when I am inviting guests on, I might emphasize the specificity of my audience.
Amelia Hruby:Like this is a podcast for this type of person, and I have a really engaged, active listenership. I might say something like that. If that's true, that should be true if you're saying it. But if I know that my numbers aren't super high, I might say something like that. I also find that most people don't have any context for what a big or small audience is.
Amelia Hruby:So we can just kind of use more general language about the benefits of our audience or the impact that episodes have for our guests. And that really answers the question. Like the person asking this question doesn't care so much about how many listeners they have. They just wanna make sure that the impact of their time spent recording an interview with you or promoting the episode, They wanna make sure that impact is felt for you and for them. Right?
Amelia Hruby:Like, I don't wanna go on a show if I think that nobody is gonna listen to it except me and the host. Now that's not even necessarily true. Sometimes I'll go on a show just to build a relationship with the host, and I'm not so concerned about whether anyone listens, but I think that many people are interested in that impact. Right? Like, they're coming on your show to share their knowledge, to talk about their work, and they might be hoping that some people who listen to your show are gonna join their audience afterwards.
Amelia Hruby:So if your show has a small audience, I think that I wouldn't be, like, putting those numbers in people's faces, and if they ask me about audience size, I would emphasize the engagement rates and the specificity and the impact that episodes or interviews have for your guests and for your listeners. Right? Like you can always emphasize how much this episode will be of service to the people who do hear it, even if it's not a ton of people. Now something that's coming up more and more with shows on YouTube is that it used to be that nobody knew how many people listen to your podcast, right? Like, if your show is on Apple and Spotify, nobody knows how many listeners you have.
Amelia Hruby:Like they might go look at how many episodes that you've released and how many ratings or reviews you have. Like that's kind of a way to be like, is anybody listening to the show? Is it, has it been around? Have people reviewed it? But still there's no concrete metric there.
Amelia Hruby:When we look at YouTube, however, you can see the number of views on every single video that is public information. And so when you invite a guest on your show, they're probably gonna go look at your YouTube channel if your podcast is primarily hosted on YouTube, and they're gonna check out those numbers So if your show is on YouTube and I do know that the person who asked this question their show is on YouTube then I think you do want to have that sort of more proactive language in your pitches around the size of your audience And again, even if your audience is small, you can emphasize how many episodes you've created, the types of feedback you've gotten, like maybe you've gotten some great reviews or some great comments that you can link people to, we can emphasize the impact over the metrics and that often assuages any worries that someone may have or a potential guest may have about being on a show with a small audience. So that is how I would reframe the sort of guest invitation experience or these sorts of questions. If you're getting them from guests around how big could or should my audience be, or what do I say to a guest?
Amelia Hruby:Who's like, you don't have that many listeners. Like, why should I come on your show? And then my second thought here is about refocusing, as I said earlier. And I think that if your show has a very small audience and that audience is not growing, it may be time to refocus your efforts on audience growth. And so maybe you actually pause from guest interviews for a moment and you focus on being a guest on other podcasts, or maybe you only do guest interviews where you're doing a guest swap or a promo swap with someone else who has a podcast.
Amelia Hruby:Because sometimes we are so entrenched in making our show that we don't have the time or the space to promote it or to market it so that our audience can grow. And so again, I think that growth needs to be aligned with your goals. We don't need to grow into infinity. We don't need that million listener podcast audience, But if there are people you wanna talk to and they're telling you that your audience is too small for them to come on your show, then you may need to refocus on audience growth for a while so that you can show that your audience has grown and that you've brought in new listeners and people might be more excited to be guests on as a result of that. So those are my thoughts on getting podcast guests when you have a small audience.
Amelia Hruby:I did an episode a few episodes ago about how to invite guests on your show when you are just starting or have a small audience. So that one is much more logistical. Like how do I write a pitch? What do I include or emphasize in the pitch? And so if you're looking for that type of information, head back a couple episodes, and you will find that more how to kind of advice.
Amelia Hruby:But for this episode, I hope that this advice to reframe the size of your audience for potential guests and to refocus your efforts on audience growth can take you to where you'd like your show to go next. As always, if you have your own questions about podcast growth or guests or pitches or anything else, you can head to the show notes and send me a voice message with your question, and I will answer it on an upcoming episode of the softer cast. And while you're on the show notes, you will also find links to the amazing free resources that I have created for softer sounds. We have a free podcast launch toolkit, as well as a free podcast audit. The former is for new podcasters.
Amelia Hruby:The latter is for people who already have a podcast. And then we also have courses and advising sessions and all sorts of other ways that I can support you and your show. Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of the softer cast. I'm your host, Amelia Frooby. And until next time, I will see you on the softer side of podcasting.
Amelia Hruby:Thanks so much for listening to the softer cast. If you enjoyed this episode, please send it to your podcast bestie. And after you do that, go ahead and drop us five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you'd like to submit a question, head to speakpipe.com/softercast to record a message or email us at hi@softersounds.studio. And last but not least, we made some awesome free things for you.
Amelia Hruby:Head to the show notes to download our free podcast launch toolkit or our three step podcast audit. No matter where you're at in your podcasting journey, we're here to support you. Thanks again for tuning in and joining us on the softer side of podcasting.