Amelia [00:00:01] Hello and welcome to The Softer Cast, a podcast for small business owners and creatives who want tender podcast advice without any tech bro bullshit.

Amelia [00:00:10] I'm Amelia Hruby. I'm the founder of Softer Sounds, a podcast studio for women and non-binary entrepreneurs. On this show, I answer your questions about podcasting.

Amelia [00:00:19] And today's question comes from a lovely listener who was apparently listening very closely to Episode One. And back at Episode One, I mentioned a statistic about podcast downloads that comes from Buzzsprout, a very popular podcast hosting platform. And Buzzsprout reported that half of the podcast episodes published in early 2022 were downloaded fewer than 29 times in the first seven days.

Amelia [00:00:48] So, 50% of episodes published on Buzzsprout had less than 29 downloads in their first week. So, the listener [laughs]— who shall not be named— who asked not to be named, reached out and asked:

Amelia [00:01:02] “Well, Amelia, you know, my podcast has fewer than 29 downloads in the first seven days sometimes. How should I feel about that, and how many downloads should my podcast be getting?”

Amelia [00:01:16] I'm going to go ahead and notice there are a lot of shoulds happening here. So, I want to invite you, if you're listening to this episode, this episode entitled, "How many listeners should my podcast have? How many downloads should my podcast have?"

Amelia [00:01:30] I'm going to invite you to start out with a really nice deep breath. We're going to inhale together [takes a deep breath].

Amelia [00:01:37] Now we're going to exhale and release all of those shoulds [audibly exhales]. Because let me tell you, this is a hard question.

[00:01:45] How many downloads should my podcast be getting? I wish I could just tell you that there's a secret answer. And the secret answer is your podcast should be getting [makes beep sound] downloads. Insert number there. But there isn't a secret answer. There's no one way to answer this question.

Amelia [00:02:02] So, I want to unpack it from a few different angles including:

Amelia [00:02:05] Should we care about downloads?

Amelia [00:02:07] What do I look at when I look at my own clients' podcast statistics?

Amelia [00:02:12] And how could you start to set a goal for how many downloads you want to get for your podcast?

Amelia [00:02:17] So, let's dive in to the downloads. First off, should we care about downloads? Well, downloads are the podcast industry standard for episode and show statistics. But downloads are also a deeply flawed number, and this is recognized within the industry as well.

Amelia [00:02:37] So, overall, what is a podcast download? A podcast download is every time someone plays, streams, or downloads the file— the MP3 of your podcast. And that can be tracked because your podcast is hosted on an RSS feed. So, every time somebody, like, pings that MP3 that's on the feed that's tracked as a download. Ping meaning playing it, streaming it, downloading it. Every time someone accesses that— that's called a download.

Amelia [00:03:05] However, download means something different depending on where someone is listening. So, if they're listening on Spotify, it's a download if they listen to at least 60 seconds. If they're listening in Apple Podcasts, a download as the number of unique devices that have played more than zero seconds of an episode. And apparently this doesn't even include all Apple devices.

Amelia [00:03:32] If someone is running a device like with an older version of iTunes or iOS. It may not even be counted at all.

Amelia [00:03:41] And then in Google Podcasts, a download is the number of times a user listened to a show for at least five seconds on that day. So they could listen, you know, a lot of times in one day. I don't know why, but maybe— maybe you want to listen to that episode eight times today. Great. But Google would only count it as one time— one download.

Amelia [00:04:00] So, again, downloads are the industry standard— Industry standard, but it's a pretty flawed number. So, with that in mind, what do I look at when I look at podcast stats for my clients? So, as you likely know by now, I run a podcast studio. I'm in the backend of over a dozen podcasts on a weekly basis, and I'm pretty regularly— regularly looking at people's stats and seeing what their numbers are like, particularly their download numbers.

Amelia [00:04:28] So, what am I looking at when I'm looking there? I'm generally looking for the average downloads per episode, the episode with the most downloads, the episode with the least downloads, and are downloads increasing, decreasing, or staying the same over time. And when I look at those things, they're kind of giving me two different types of information.

Amelia [00:04:49] So, the average down— really the most helpful questions are:

Amelia [00:04:54] Are the downloads increasing, decreasing, or staying the same over time? That's telling me, kind of, a check about the health or wellness of the audience. Like, are more people listening? Are the same number of people listening? Or are less people listening? Because if fewer people are listening, then people are not engaging with the show and something is off. Like, we're not getting it to the people who want to hear it, or it's just not keeping their interest and they're not sticking around. So, that tells me that we have work to do on the show.

Amelia [00:05:18] If downloads are staying the same, that means the show has built a great audience, but it's not getting to new people, so that audience is not growing. So, maybe we need to work on some podcast marketing efforts.

Amelia [00:05:28] And if downloads are increasing, that's awesome. We want to learn more about who these new people are. So, maybe it's time to do a listener survey. Maybe it's time to kind of figure out what they're loving and what they want more of on the show.

Amelia [00:05:40] So, that's why I look at, kind of, how downloads are trending over time. And sometimes I do that over a three months, six months, 12 months. I would not like— do not look at it from episode to episode [laughs lightly]. Like, one week is too short of a time span for that kind of analysis.

Amelia [00:05:54] I also like to look at the episode with the most downloads and the least downloads because that tells me what content is getting listened to most often and what's really resonating with listeners. It can also be really helpful— a milestone that I like to set for my clients is when— when do we get to the point where your first episode is no longer your most listened to episode? For most shows, the first episode, that's when you're kind of harnessing your existing audience and you're bringing them to your show. So, say you have an audience on social media or you've got an audience over email, and you announce your podcast and you're like, "Come listen to my podcast."

Amelia [00:06:30] That first episode is going to get a bunch of listeners from your existing audience. But what we want to happen is over time to actually— for, like, your audience to surpass that. We want your podcast to have new listeners that were not already in your audience. We want that— the podcast to be getting its own listeners— listeners or to be growing your audience through the podcast itself, not necessarily just being some— another way that you're speaking to your current audience.

Amelia [00:06:57] As I'm saying that, I'm realizing that's not true for everyone. For some folks, you just want to start a podcast to connect with your current audience in a different way. And that's amazing. But for a lot of my clients, they want their podcast to grow their overall audience, and that means that we want to see that point where your episodes are getting more listens than that first episode that was just your existing audience tuning in. So, that's what I look at, kind of, what I track when I'm looking at podcast stats for my clients.

Amelia [00:07:24] I also like to look at the total number of downloads overall because that's just like a mood boost and it's fun when it goes up and that number is always bigger because it's cumulative of all of your episodes. So, you know, that's also, kind of, for me, just a feel-good number to look at.

Amelia [00:07:41] Then, there are some questions. So, now let's talk about how to set your own podcast goals. Like what— when you ask what— how many people should— how many downloads should my podcast have? How many listeners should my podcast have?

Amelia [00:07:54] Well, it depends on your goals, and I think it's really helpful to set a goal number for how many listeners you would like your podcast to have. But like, how do you do that, right? Because, you know, I've told you that 50% of podcasts have fewer than 29 listeners per episode. So, probably great to set your sights at 30 or above. But, like, there are a lot of numbers above 30 [chuckles]. So, where do we want to put it?

Amelia [00:08:15] Well, when I talk with my clients, we kind of look at a couple of different— I ask them a few questions so we can come up with a good answer. I like to start with:

Amelia [00:08:24] Why do you care about your stats? Not from like a antagonizing place of like, "Why care? This isn't important."

Amelia [00:08:31] But from a place of like what is the end goal here? Like, what do we hope to measure with these stats?

Amelia [00:08:36] Do you want a certain number of downloads because you need to sell a certain number of this product or service and you figure you'll convert X percent of listeners, right? If you're like, I know that my email list generally converts 10% of people on it, which is really high. So, don't set that as your standard, but just so can do some easy math [laughs]. I convert 10% of my list. I need to sell two spots in my coaching program, so my podcast needs to have at least 20 people listening actively over time because I think it'll convert about the same percent. Great. We don't need you to get over 29 listens per episode. We need a really loyal listener base of 20.

Amelia [00:09:14] But if you're like, I think I'll convert 1% of listeners and I need to sell— sell a hundred of these books. That means I need— I think— I don't even know how many listeners. Math is so hard [laughs]. I should like done this on a piece of paper before this. But anyway, if you're an analytical thinker, that can be a way that we come up with a goal number for your downloads.

Amelia [00:09:35] You also might want a certain number of downloads so you feel good about your show. Like, for me, I love round numbers and I'm like, "Oh my gosh, when my show hits 1000 downloads overall, that's going to feel awesome." And like, that was my goal. When I launched my last podcast, Off the Grid, I was like, "Right now the goal is just to keep making episodes and get to a thousand downloads. And once I get to a thousand downloads, I will look at how many episodes that took, how many downloads per episode. I'll start assessing from there."

Amelia [00:10:00] So, sometimes just set a goal that feels good to you. Our stats don't need to be anything to anyone but us. So, that's it— why not? That's all you need. Pick one that feels good. I am liberating you [chuckles] from the shoulds of everyone else's shoulds here.

Amelia [00:10:16] Pick a number that feels good to you. Let's aim for that. And then, I would say adjust over time because you pick a really high number because it feels good and you just end up feeling like shit all the time because you're not at that number.

Amelia [00:10:28] Let's readjust [laughs]. And then another, like, end goal question I ask is, do you want a certain number of downloads for sponsorship? So, one reason people care about download numbers is because of sponsors and ads.

Amelia [00:10:43] I want to assure you that you can have ads on your podcast no matter how many listeners you have. Ads and sponsors are about relationships. They're about the relationships you have with other people who want to sell things to your audience and the relationship you have with your audience. So, I have seen people launch shows that are fully paid for by sponsors and have a listener base of under 100 regular listeners and that those shows continue getting funded by sponsors because that's a really loyal listener base. And normally because the host is personally, like, vouching for the sponsor or the brand. And that level of like, "I believe in this and you're going to love it," goes so far.

Amelia [00:11:24] Like, podcasts are a way of getting word of mouth recommendations through your voice to your audience. And they land, in my opinion, so much stronger than simply like, "Here's my affiliate link at the bottom of an email" or, "I'm on Instagram pushing this, like, sponsored post."

Amelia [00:11:42] I think in podcasts you just get the space with— in your own voice to express what you're— what you really believe in and to convince people. It's just so convincing. I've been so convinced [chuckles] by podcast ads. So, another reason to care about ad— like ads are about relationships. You don't need a certain number of downloads to have ads on your podcast. You just need really strong relationships with your audience and with the sponsors you want to have on. So, if you're willing to do your own ads, work on that relationship marketing and go for it no matter what your listenership is.

Amelia [00:12:17] That said, if you want to partner with podcast ad agencies that do ads for big brands, if your like life dream is to have Squarespace put an ad on your podcast. Most of the agencies that I've talked to want podcasts that have 10,000 downloads per episode or more. So, that becomes your new goal, trying to get 10,000 downloads per episode. But frankly, very few of the shows that I work on have that many downloads, and that's just not really our goal for those shows. We're not trying to get those agency spots; we're not trying to get those big ads. Like, we're perfectly happy with the type of relationship marketing happening on the show organically.

Amelia [00:12:54] So, when I ask why— why do you care about your stats? That's, like, what I'm trying to get at. What is your goal for your show and how can we translate that into a goal number of downloads?

Amelia [00:13:06] Now, some other questions I ask just to wrap us up. You know what I'm trying to think about, like, what's a good goal for downloads for this show? You can start with how big is your audience elsewhere? How big is your social media audience? How big is your newsletter audience and how many of them do you hope listen to your podcast? Especially when you're launching out the listeners are going to be people who are already in your audience.

Amelia [00:13:28] I don't know if I said that right— when you're launching, when you're starting out [chuckles], your initial listener base is going to be people who are already following you or subscribe to you elsewhere.

Amelia [00:13:38] So, say you have a newsletter list of a thousand and you want 10% of them to start listening to your podcast. Your download goal is 100. Great. That's a great goal. I think another question to consider is how are you promoting your episodes and how much energy do you have to promote your episodes?

Amelia [00:13:55] If you listen back to Episode One of the podcast where this question initiated from, you know that the podcast space is pretty crowded right now. I don't want that to discourage you from creating a show or continuing to make your show because I think that all shows are important and your voice brings something to the table that no one else can.

Amelia [00:14:13] However, if you don't have energy to share— if all you can do is make the podcast and release it and you're not promoting it, you're not sharing it, you're not doing ad swaps or promos or anything else with other shows, then you probably are not growing your listenership that quickly. And that means you want to adjust your download numbers to [pause] make sense for the audience that you have.

Amelia [00:14:37] I find that the best way to set podcast goals for this question of how many downloads should my podcast have? How many listeners should my podcast be getting?

Amelia [00:14:47] Launch your show, see how many listeners you get, and then set growth goals from there.

Amelia [00:14:55] Try to grow 10% every episode or 20% each episode or 15% each season. Whatever feels good to you, it's going to depend on what that number is that you're starting out at. You know, if you've got 30%— 30 listeners to your first few episodes, you're like, "Okay, I'm going to try to grow a 10% per episode." You're trying to get three more people per episode to listen. But, you know, if you've got a thousand, you're like 10%— a hundred more people per episode [chuckles] that might be a slightly more challenging goal, but I think that that is the way to answer this question— How many downloads should my podcast be getting? Let's start with the audience you have and set growth goals from there and bring all these other factors about sales, about ads, about, you know, vanity metrics. All of that can come in from there.

Amelia [00:15:43] All right. That's it for this episode. I have now gone beyond 15 minutes [laughs heartily], so my promise that these episodes will be less than 10 minutes are really being thwarted by my tendency to be long-winded. But you know what? We're all doing our best.

Amelia [00:15:57] If you have a question that you'd like me to answer on The Softer Cast head to speakpipe.com/softercast to submit a voice memo or you can email me at hi@softersounds.studio and send me your question. You can submit it anonymously like today's listener did. You can share your download numbers or not, whatever feels good to you, I am here to offer you podcast support— tender podcast support without any tech bro B.S. That's the promise of this show. I hope we're living up to it.

Amelia [00:16:28] If you're enjoying— if you're enjoying what you've heard, please subscribe, rate, and review the show. Share it with a friend. And if you want more amazing, free stuff, head to softersounds.studio/softercast to download our free resources for podcasting beginners and pros. Thanks so much for tuning in to The Softer Cast. I can't wait to see you on the softer side of podcasting.